The original concept for this podcast involved analyzing father figures in film. Since broadening this to cover all relationships, can you describe the initial conception?
Sarah and I had been trying to make a podcast together for years but nothing ended up sticking. Then in the early days of the pandemic, we thought it would be cute to start a podcast called Apocalypse Friends. The conceit was to explore friendship in movies that are either about the apocalypse (we began with Dawn of the Dead) or about some epochal time or moment (we also recorded an episode about A League of Their Own). We were friends and that particular moment felt apocalyptic, hence the concept. We got three recordings in—maybe it was only two—before we realized this was too heavy for that moment. Too heavy for us at least. But we enjoyed the format where we were talking about heavy stuff through the lens of watching movies.
What about dads, specifically, struck you as something worthy of exploration?
I like movies. I have ideas about movies. I am not a critic, but I like them as a conversational jumping off point. Sarah and I both had tricky relationships with our fathers, and we realized fathers are often a theme in movies, so we thought, let’s pivot from one very scary thing to one that feels more manageable and let’s explore relationships with dads in these movies. But as we went along, we realized that what we were really talking about was feelings and vulnerability and mental health and more, so we broadened the conversation to one about feelings and not just explicitly dads.
Tell us about the name, You Are Good. It’s a Young Frankenstein quote. How does this phrase relate to your show’s intent?
When we decided we were going to pivot, Sarah had actually suggested “You Are Good” in reference to Young Frankenstein. We then made an announcement on Twitter that we’d be changing the name and somebody suggested the same.
It works on a lot of levels. First, Young Frankenstein is a Mel Brooks movie and Mel Brooks is like… a spiritual leader in our eyes. A guru for sure. We adore him. And we adore him because he found a way to talk about all of these monumental subjects from love to poverty to forgiveness to fascism by way of finding and exploring the humor. We love that. We are indebted to him. But also it works on a textual level.
Was it something about how Dr. Frankenstein says it to The Monster, or is it more related to the overall narrative of that movie?
“You are good” is a statement to the listener. Everything in our lives, particularly under capitalism, is trying to undermine us in some way and we’re here to be like, you know what, you’re good. We all have a lot of work to do or whatever, but at the end of the day you’re good.
I saw a recent tweet that said your end of episode sign-off, “you, my friend, are good,” gives them comfort and makes them feel like a little kid watching Mr. Rogers all over again.
This was so meaningful to encounter. Somebody also said something along the lines of my having a Mr. Rogers x Henry Rollins vibe, which also meant the world to me specifically because Henry Rollins was one of the first people I encountered who said a lot of the types of stuff that comes up on our show. In his 1993 spoken word special Talking from the Box he said, and I’m paraphrasing, “I’m not trying to say I’m some goodie goodie, but I like all of you here. I am not saying I want to move in with you, but I like you. I love your life.”
Because of course Mr. Rogers had already repped that perspective, but when you’re a teenager Mr. Rogers is uncool (though I’d disagree with that now) and to see this exist so explicitly under a punk rock banner was important for me to encounter. It’s an attitude I sort of had somewhere in the back of my brain and heart when I first encountered it as a kid, but he really helped to put it into words so having this opportunity to turn it into something broader that also means something for people is profoundly meaningful.
I’ve also come across numerous people expressing how listening to episodes is like being in group therapy with both of you. Is making this show therapeutic for you?
Yes, I absolutely find these conversations therapeutic for me. More than anything, it’s friends coming together, which I love. But a lot of the things that come up are either things that have come up in therapy for me, in my own mindfulness work, or they are things I will bring into therapy or my mindfulness work.
Why do you think the medium of film, as opposed to a podcast focused on something like literature, is a good candidate for allowing audiences to process emotions, trauma, and identity?
It is very much for us, and we are grateful other folks feel some benefit from engaging [with] it.
Movies work because they are broadly accessible. The overhead investment on engaging the text we’re going to use as a jumping off point to talk about feelings and anything else that comes up is low, it’s usually an hour and a half of your time if not a little more. And with the movies we pick, it’s usually a movie one has likely already seen. The point is not film appreciation, the point is to say “What about this meant something to you and why?” Movies are an easy jumping off point to talk about anything, really.
Do you have an episode that is closest to your heart, one that moved you the most? A favorite or favorites? Is it because of the film selection or the resulting conversation that ensued?
I truly do love every episode, but I found one of my favorite, most moving conversations was one we had with the great Ryan Ken. We discussed Arrival, which is a feelings-packed movie and the conversation we had was beautiful. Ryan really brought it, as I suspect they do to everything they do. We heard from a lot of folks who listened to that episode and felt seen in a big way.
Speaking of which, can you tell us about the film selection process? What about the guest selection? How do you decide which movies will generate the kind of emotional-unpacking discussion for which the show is well-known?
Almost exclusively the process works like this: we pick a guest, the guest picks a movie, we talk about that movie. The guests usually pick a few different options and we’ll end up picking options based on where we think the conversation could go. To us, the guests’ insights are the most important factors for shaping a great conversation.
I’ve noticed you tend to select older films—most selections are older, with only a handful after 2010. Nostalgia is a big theme, especially when revisiting how you responded to a film as a child, adolescent, or young adult and how you resonated with it after a recent re-watch. Is this an important factor in the selection?
The unsexy answer is largely about reach. Folks are more likely to have seen a movie that is older than 10 years old. But if a great guest has decided they want to cover something that is newer and we think it’s going to make for great conversation, then of course we’ll cover that. Ryan Ken, who I mentioned earlier, offered a handful of titles but said that they thought they’d have the most to say about Moonlight, which is newer, but of course the conversation and the guest are ultimately what is most important.
But we do tend to focus on a lot of older movies because those movies made the impacts they did on our guests when they were young, and they made impacts on many and often our audience will say something along the lines of “Thank you for putting into words the way I’ve felt about this for my whole life but have not been able to speak to myself.”
You release playlists of music inspired by the movie and the conversation about it to accompany each episode. Can you tell me more about that? I feel like movie soundtracks, or scores could almost be another show entirely.
Niko Stratis released a great first season of a show called V/A Club, which was exactly that re: movie soundtracks. I love Niko and all of her work and I was lucky to talk with her about The Crow soundtrack on that show.
We used to do this as a little bonus, we each pick around the same amount of songs and put together a playlist. I love doing it largely just to see what Sarah will pick. She’s got great taste in music, and also every song she picks usually fits the theme of the movies in super unique ways. Her brain is good.
Sarah’s other show, You’re Wrong About, recently completed a tour. Any plans for a You Are Good tour in the future?
I don’t think we’d object to it! 2023 is going to be busy in a lot of ways but I would love to get in front of more people in this way. We had a blast on the You’re Wrong About Tour.
What else are you working on? Any exciting upcoming projects or episodes you’re particularly excited about?
We've always got a bunch of stuff in the works. Carolyn, who produces our shows, is working on a ton of new music and is releasing new tracks and doing some touring herself. 2022 has been a wild ride and 2023 will, ideally, be even wilder.
The original concept for this podcast involved analyzing father figures in film. Since broadening this to cover all relationships, can you describe the initial conception?
Sarah and I had been trying to make a podcast together for years but nothing ended up sticking. Then in the early days of the pandemic, we thought it would be cute to start a podcast called Apocalypse Friends. The conceit was to explore friendship in movies that are either about the apocalypse (we began with Dawn of the Dead) or about some epochal time or moment (we also recorded an episode about A League of Their Own). We were friends and that particular moment felt apocalyptic, hence the concept. We got three recordings in—maybe it was only two—before we realized this was too heavy for that moment. Too heavy for us at least. But we enjoyed the format where we were talking about heavy stuff through the lens of watching movies.
What about dads, specifically, struck you as something worthy of exploration?
I like movies. I have ideas about movies. I am not a critic, but I like them as a conversational jumping off point. Sarah and I both had tricky relationships with our fathers, and we realized fathers are often a theme in movies, so we thought, let’s pivot from one very scary thing to one that feels more manageable and let’s explore relationships with dads in these movies. But as we went along, we realized that what we were really talking about was feelings and vulnerability and mental health and more, so we broadened the conversation to one about feelings and not just explicitly dads.
Tell us about the name, You Are Good. It’s a Young Frankenstein quote. How does this phrase relate to your show’s intent?
When we decided we were going to pivot, Sarah had actually suggested “You Are Good” in reference to Young Frankenstein. We then made an announcement on Twitter that we’d be changing the name and somebody suggested the same.
It works on a lot of levels. First, Young Frankenstein is a Mel Brooks movie and Mel Brooks is like… a spiritual leader in our eyes. A guru for sure. We adore him. And we adore him because he found a way to talk about all of these monumental subjects from love to poverty to forgiveness to fascism by way of finding and exploring the humor. We love that. We are indebted to him. But also it works on a textual level.
Was it something about how Dr. Frankenstein says it to The Monster, or is it more related to the overall narrative of that movie?
“You are good” is a statement to the listener. Everything in our lives, particularly under capitalism, is trying to undermine us in some way and we’re here to be like, you know what, you’re good. We all have a lot of work to do or whatever, but at the end of the day you’re good.
I saw a recent tweet that said your end of episode sign-off, “you, my friend, are good,” gives them comfort and makes them feel like a little kid watching Mr. Rogers all over again.
This was so meaningful to encounter. Somebody also said something along the lines of my having a Mr. Rogers x Henry Rollins vibe, which also meant the world to me specifically because Henry Rollins was one of the first people I encountered who said a lot of the types of stuff that comes up on our show. In his 1993 spoken word special Talking from the Box he said, and I’m paraphrasing, “I’m not trying to say I’m some goodie goodie, but I like all of you here. I am not saying I want to move in with you, but I like you. I love your life.”
Because of course Mr. Rogers had already repped that perspective, but when you’re a teenager Mr. Rogers is uncool (though I’d disagree with that now) and to see this exist so explicitly under a punk rock banner was important for me to encounter. It’s an attitude I sort of had somewhere in the back of my brain and heart when I first encountered it as a kid, but he really helped to put it into words so having this opportunity to turn it into something broader that also means something for people is profoundly meaningful.
I’ve also come across numerous people expressing how listening to episodes is like being in group therapy with both of you. Is making this show therapeutic for you?
Yes, I absolutely find these conversations therapeutic for me. More than anything, it’s friends coming together, which I love. But a lot of the things that come up are either things that have come up in therapy for me, in my own mindfulness work, or they are things I will bring into therapy or my mindfulness work.
Why do you think the medium of film, as opposed to a podcast focused on something like literature, is a good candidate for allowing audiences to process emotions, trauma, and identity?
It is very much for us, and we are grateful other folks feel some benefit from engaging [with] it.
Movies work because they are broadly accessible. The overhead investment on engaging the text we’re going to use as a jumping off point to talk about feelings and anything else that comes up is low, it’s usually an hour and a half of your time if not a little more. And with the movies we pick, it’s usually a movie one has likely already seen. The point is not film appreciation, the point is to say “What about this meant something to you and why?” Movies are an easy jumping off point to talk about anything, really.
Do you have an episode that is closest to your heart, one that moved you the most? A favorite or favorites? Is it because of the film selection or the resulting conversation that ensued?
I truly do love every episode, but I found one of my favorite, most moving conversations was one we had with the great Ryan Ken. We discussed Arrival, which is a feelings-packed movie and the conversation we had was beautiful. Ryan really brought it, as I suspect they do to everything they do. We heard from a lot of folks who listened to that episode and felt seen in a big way.
Speaking of which, can you tell us about the film selection process? What about the guest selection? How do you decide which movies will generate the kind of emotional-unpacking discussion for which the show is well-known?
Almost exclusively the process works like this: we pick a guest, the guest picks a movie, we talk about that movie. The guests usually pick a few different options and we’ll end up picking options based on where we think the conversation could go. To us, the guests’ insights are the most important factors for shaping a great conversation.
I’ve noticed you tend to select older films—most selections are older, with only a handful after 2010. Nostalgia is a big theme, especially when revisiting how you responded to a film as a child, adolescent, or young adult and how you resonated with it after a recent re-watch. Is this an important factor in the selection?
The unsexy answer is largely about reach. Folks are more likely to have seen a movie that is older than 10 years old. But if a great guest has decided they want to cover something that is newer and we think it’s going to make for great conversation, then of course we’ll cover that. Ryan Ken, who I mentioned earlier, offered a handful of titles but said that they thought they’d have the most to say about Moonlight, which is newer, but of course the conversation and the guest are ultimately what is most important.
But we do tend to focus on a lot of older movies because those movies made the impacts they did on our guests when they were young, and they made impacts on many and often our audience will say something along the lines of “Thank you for putting into words the way I’ve felt about this for my whole life but have not been able to speak to myself.”
You release playlists of music inspired by the movie and the conversation about it to accompany each episode. Can you tell me more about that? I feel like movie soundtracks, or scores could almost be another show entirely.
Niko Stratis released a great first season of a show called V/A Club, which was exactly that re: movie soundtracks. I love Niko and all of her work and I was lucky to talk with her about The Crow soundtrack on that show.
We used to do this as a little bonus, we each pick around the same amount of songs and put together a playlist. I love doing it largely just to see what Sarah will pick. She’s got great taste in music, and also every song she picks usually fits the theme of the movies in super unique ways. Her brain is good.
Sarah’s other show, You’re Wrong About, recently completed a tour. Any plans for a You Are Good tour in the future?
I don’t think we’d object to it! 2023 is going to be busy in a lot of ways but I would love to get in front of more people in this way. We had a blast on the You’re Wrong About Tour.
What else are you working on? Any exciting upcoming projects or episodes you’re particularly excited about?
We've always got a bunch of stuff in the works. Carolyn, who produces our shows, is working on a ton of new music and is releasing new tracks and doing some touring herself. 2022 has been a wild ride and 2023 will, ideally, be even wilder.